Andrea Zink is one of the women featured in this month’s episode, discussing faith and her commitment to creation care.
Volunteer and Help Save God’s Creation
In a followup to our most popular episode, What Does the Bible Say About Climate Change?, host Peterson Toscano speaks with two Christian women about their faith, their commitment to creation care and climate change, and why they see Citizens’ Climate Lobby as a place where they can pursue meaningful solutions. They talk about their values, the Bible, and the spiritual charge to do the work of reconciliation, especially in a contentious and politically-divided country. They speak with conviction about the need for Christian believers to take creation care seriously.
Kelsey Grant is a CCL Conservative Fellow and a pre-law student at the University of Colorado-Boulder where she is double majoring in Political Science and Philosophy. She discovered Citizens’ Climate Lobby through her church, where she co-founded environmental ministries, taught about environmental stewardship as a Sunday School teacher, and occasionally served as a guest preacher. She has published over a dozen op-eds and letters to the editor. Kelsey was named a 2020 Udall Scholar and 2020 Truman Scholar Finalist for her work on conservative outreach in the climate space and empowering individuals to be effective facilitators of bipartisanship.
Andrea Zink is from Tennessee and has spent her professional career working in the non-profit sector for mission-driven organizations such as The Salvation Army, Vanderbilt University, and Nashville Opera. She attends the United Methodist Church and serves on the United Methodist Circle of Grace prison ministry music team and on several UMC Creation Justice work committees. Andrea joined CCL in 2016 when she discovered CCL’s bipartisan approach to climate change solutions.
The Art House
In the Art House you will meet Lindsay Linsky. A Bible-believing Christian in Georgia, she is the author of the book, “Keep It Good—Understanding Creation Care through Parables.” Through her book, she seeks to break through environmental apathy and partisan noise to show Christians God’s simple yet beautiful message of creation stewardship.
As a teacher, Lindsay Linsky understands how challenging it is to correct misinformation, and she recognizes the power of stories to engage people with new ideas. In our show she shares practical insights and a very powerful Bible verse that highlights the call to creation care.
Lindsay Linsky has been featured on panel discussions at theology conferences as well as podcasts and webinars on Creation Care Radio, Yale Climate Connections, and RepublicEN’s The EcoRight Speaks podcast.
Lindsay earned her PhD in Science Education with a focus on environmental education and ocean literacy from the University of Georgia, and lives with her husband and children in Suwanee, GA.
Listen to Episode 30: What does the Bible say about climate change?
Dig Deeper
- Lindsay Linsky on Why Christians Need to Keep Creation Good (YouTube)
- Church and creation care: we need a theology-before-politics approach by Doyle Sager in Baptist News Global
- Episode 56: Rev. Tony Campolo’s Call to Save Creation
We always welcome your thoughts, questions, suggestions, and recommendations for the show. Leave a voicemail at (518) 595-9414 (+1 if calling from outside the USA). You can email your answers to radio @ citizensclimate.org
You can listen to Citizens’ Climate Radio on these platforms:
Also, feel free to connect with other listeners, suggest program ideas, and respond to programs in the Citizens’ Climate Radio Facebook group or on Twitter at @CitizensCRadio.
Learn More:
- Blog: Conservative Solutions to Climate Change
- Pope Francis and the Catholic Climate Movement
- Podcast #30: What Does the Bible Say About Climate Change?
- Conservatives on Climate Change
- Video: Talking to Conservatives – What’s Working
- 5 Conservatives Arguing for a Price on Carbon
- Laser Talk: Religion and Climate Change
- Blog: CCLers Connect with Conservatives at Local Hunting and Fishing Event
- A Climate Solutions Conservatives Can Embrace
- Conservatives Work for Common Ground on Climate
- Conservative Guide to Climate Policy
- Find and Connect with Climate-Conscious Conservatives
- Short Film on Conservatives & Climate
- Traditional media rarely shows the Conservative view on the environment. Anna Sagatov, a film student at Montana State University wanted to capture that view outside of her university. Starting with Conservatives in the Montana countryside, they are often bound by a closeness to the earth. The film expands to a broader Conservative demand for climate action.
Read the Transcript
Episode 55: Creation Care and Climate Change: What Would Jesus Do?
Peterson Toscano
Welcome to Citizens Climate Radio. In the show we highlight people’s stories. We celebrate your successes, and together we share strategies for talking about climate change. I’m your host, Peterson Toscano Welcome to Episode 55 of Citizens Climate Radio, a project of Citizens Climate Education. This episode is airing on Tuesday, December 22 2020.
Peterson Toscano
Our most popular episode so far has been episode 30. What does the Bible say about climate change? 1000s of people have downloaded the episode, which features three evangelicals speaking about their faith. Think of today’s episode as a follow up to episode 30.
In the Art House you will meet Lindsey Linsky. She’s a Bible believing Christian in Georgia and the author of the book Keep It Good: Understanding Creation Care Through Parables. As a teacher, Lindsey Linsky understands how challenging it is to correct misinformation. And she recognizes the power of stories to engage people with new ideas. She will share practical insights and a very powerful Bible verse that highlights the call to creation care. But first, I share with you a conversation I had with two Christian women. It’s a conversation unscripted and from the heart.
Andrea Zink
I grew up in Middle Tennessee, a little bit north of Nashville, went away to school and went away with one of my husband’s jobs for a couple years. But we have been back now for about five years, and I’m really loving being back in the South.
Kelsey Grant
Kelsey Grant. Yeah, so I was born and raised in the outskirts of Tucson, Arizona. But I was 14 I moved to Boulder, Colorado, with my family, which is where I still am and where I’m a student at CU Boulder. I’m a political science and philosophy major.
Peterson Toscano
How do you identify as a person as a person of faith? politically? How do you identify? And we’ll start with Andrea.
Andrea Zink
It’s hard to think about who I am without thinking of myself as a Christian because I feel like it integrates so much of the core of of who I see of myself as being a child of God and a Christian and just kind of how I view the world. What about you, Kelsey?
Kelsey Grant
I was born raised in the Methodist Church. My dad was a minister. My granddad was a minister great granddad was a minister, all the uncles everybody was a minister, so many ways, I inherited my faith tradition. But as I got older, it became something that was much more personal to me. It no longer starts to resemble just a tradition. politically. I’m a registered Independent, who over time has kind of drifted into the Republican political world. I’m a climate advocate, because I am a Christian.
Peterson Toscano
So Andrea, what about you politically? And is there any tie into your faith with your politics?
Andrea Zink
I was in a very bad car accident about five years ago, it was a pretty traumatic experience. I was in the hospital for like three months, I had a lot of time on my hands to think during that experience. And also through trauma, I experienced God in a way that I had not before in my life. I learned many, many things throughout my injuries and then just recovery afterwards. It took about probably about two years to really fully recover. I had a lot of time on my hands to start reading and getting more involved in just learning about issues, which I’m sad to say before that I really, you know, I always voted but I just hadn’t gotten super into politics, I would say so I still kind of identify as an independent, I do lean, Conservative and some of my views on issues.
Peterson Toscano
There’s this assumption out there: climate change is either a scientific issue or an issue for left-leaning environmentalist with their sandals and hippie clothes. How has your faith push you into the world of climate change?
Kelsey Grant
I’m happy you use the word hippie in your question. Before a few years ago, I was actually under the impression that being environmentalist meant that you were a hippie or something like that. I didn’t fit well into that image and mold. I actually, for a long time didn’t even think environmental problems or climate change was a Christian problem. I didn’t think it was relevant to my faith tradition. But when I became a Sunday school teacher, so I’ve actually been a Sunday school teacher since I was 13 off and on. In the Sunday school classroom was actually where I started to develop my passion for environmental stewardship, I was frequently having to encounter scripture having to teach children lessons. Slowly, over time, I started to connect the dots between problems that this world was facing and what my faith tradition was asking of me. I started to question my previously held beliefs about the role of my faith. And I started to realize that, that environmental stewardship was fundamental to Christianity.
Andrea Zink
I am definitely not a scientist. So I don’t come at this from a scientific perspective at all. I mean, I’ve just always loved nature. And so I think of it really is just almost like connecting to creation through God’s love for us that God has provided this beautiful earth and provided all that we need as humans to sustain us, you know, what is our role in that as Christians and that we are here to, to steward it? Am I being a good steward? I really see it as just being a part of being a Christian.
Kelsey Grant
Climate and environmental stewardship is not progressive leftist issue, it appears like this. Conservative values align with environmental stewardship. When I think about my faith in how that motivates me, in my work as a climate advocate, I think about responsibility. It is not responsible to leave behind a destroyed planet and environment for our children where they they can’t thrive in the way that Did you know, when you are given a gift, you do not treat it recklessly or poorly or failed to take care of it? No, you you nurture and you cherish it.
Andrea Zink
Doing those things. It’s really, it’s really giving, like honor to God, showing gratitude to God for our gifts that we have through creation.
Peterson Toscano
In regards to climate change, what’s the sin? And how do we repent?
Andrea Zink
I was in a Bible study recently where they were talking about the story of Adam and Eve and about how like the original sin was wanting to be God, essentially, wanting to have control and dominion and have all of the wisdom that God had, placing ourselves in a position that we are not the stewards, but we are are trying to put ourselves as the people in control and not allowing God to be in control. So that might be part of it.
Kelsey Grant
These are strong words, I think in many ways we are playing with God’s grace, by ignoring climate change. It’s a great mistake to say that no matter what we do to our planet, we will be okay because of God’s grace will be there to save us. And I don’t know where this idea came from. Because that is not how God’s grace works. God’s grace does not mean that we are free from the consequences of our actions, is sinful for us to treat our planet so recklessly and expect that God will be there to swoop in to save us from the consequences of our actions? How did we get here? This is a scary issue. I’m not an alarmist or I don’t view this apocalyptic terms. But this is a big issue. It’s really difficult to confront the fact that I think in many ways we have mistreated our planet, that this mistreatment came out of something that started out as good, you know, fossil fuels and eventually turned to something that was destructive. It’s so complicated. It’s really hard to think, you know, how do we turn ourselves back around? I think the first step in doing that is going to be incredible acts of courage, and faith.
Andrea Zink
I mean, if we’re looking at Jesus as our example, like, what kind of example is that? What kind of love and service to Christ show us that requires us changing ourselves? I guess is what I’m getting to is like you surrender that to God’s will then relating that to climate. Are we willing to change? If we repent and if we are taking responsibility? Are we willing for us to change in our personal lives but also, collectively with the larger issue of fossil fuels? What is a positive vision for our energy future look like without that? And that’s sometimes is difficult for people to envision, like they don’t know what that looks like yet. What is this hopeful energy future look like? What are the solutions that are going to be effective and can be good for our economy and good for our families and everything that we all care about?
I luckily stumbled across Citizens Climate Lobby, in which I’ve learned so much about this issue. Yes, there’s this problem. But here’s our solution. So I think finding those positive solutions to work towards has really helped me feel empowered. And it also helps to sustain me in this work to be able to see that in through my volunteering have learned how to be more active politically, and being able to articulate myself and advocate for change.
Kelsey Grant
After I went through that process of evaluating why as a Christian, should I be doing something about climate change, one value that kept coming to mind was the value of love. And I actually probably shouldn’t call it a value because in my view, God is love. So I think saying it is a value minimizes love. But I kept thinking about love as like the most important principle and guiding value. And in my faith tradition, that value is actually what led me to CCL oddly enough, you know, I found an organization that takes very seriously to be bipartisan cause taking people who often can’t stand each other, dislike one another struggle to see the good in each other, they get them to break those habits and to see the good in one another to learn how to love one another, get along, see the best in each other. And that was something that really appealed to me, by trying to build these bridges. And in our country, which is hurting and aching due to polarization and division, I found out that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to be someone who could kind of stand in the middle and to bring our brothers and sisters who who hate each other too often and bring them together. But my service that climate costs come in the form of serving people, and helping to kind of maneuver this middle space where we try to foster bipartisanship and common understanding and love between different people.
Peterson Toscano
Yeah, yeah, it’s the work of reconciliation is what truth sounds like you’re talking about, and that we to then become people who help reconcile the world and bring the balance and bring peace.
Kelsey Grant And if you are a progressive Christian, I would encourage you to please get out there in to directly confront and seek to mend our broken public discourse and into be one of the people standing in the middle building relationships reaching your hand out to conservative Christian Christians, Republicans or whatever, being an agent of change that works towards fostering bipartisanship in indirectly confronts this ugly political discourse, because as a Christian, you are not called to do what is easy you are called to do what is very difficult in modern America that is directly engaging with nasty politics and polarization.
Andrea Zink
Ultimately, that’s our goal as Christians is to love God glorify God and exemplify God and all that we do. That includes to our neighbors and to this creation that He’s given us. So thank you both for joining me on this conversation.
Kelsey Grant
Absolutely. To both of you. Yeah. At one point in this discussion, I was actually getting a little bit emotional when I was asking myself, you know, how did we get here? Will we actually turn ourselves around? I don’t know if we will. But I have a lot of hope and faith that we will. I just know that moving ourselves in the right direction will require a great act of courage in space. I have faith that the Christian community can can do that.
Peterson Toscano
That was a conversation with Andrea Zink in Tennessee, and Kelsey Grant in Boulder, Colorado. If you would like to share with me your own faith journey and how it inspires the work that you do. contact me by email, radio at citizensclimate.org That’s radio at citizens climate.org.
Peterson Toscano
Now it is time for the Art house. Joining us in the art house is Lindsey Linksy. She’s lived most of her life in the American South and currently lives in Georgia. She describes herself as a Christian, a mother, and a creation care advocate. With a background in teaching science, she now helps prepare others to work in the classroom.
Lindsy Linksy
I work with future teachers and help teachers to get ready for the classroom, which is getting more and more difficult these days.
Peterson Toscano
Reading the Bible with an awareness of believers responsibility to care for creation has very much shaped her faith. With her book Lindsey seeks to connect with fellow believers in need of new direction.
Lindsy Linksy
I like to say that Keep It Good is an environmental book for Christians who have never read an environmental book in their lives. The book that you might give to your Conservative Christian friend or co worker that denies climate change on the basis of his or her faith. This book kind of borrows from Jesus’s teaching style, just loving, friendly patient and story based frequently to gently correct those misconceptions because you know, gosh, finger pointing judgment doesn’t work. Neither does gloom and doom a lot of the time.
Peterson Toscano
In the book’s introduction, Lindsay explains each chapter. Keep it Good begins with a parable rooted in biblical principles. These modern parables she scripted model concepts she wants the reader to consider. We see the unfolding story of a young couple on their wedding day. As the book progresses, she returns to them as we see the risk challenges and the moral dilemmas that come up in the intervening years. Through her own reflections, Lindsey helps readers see these parables as small scale examples of much larger scale issues.
Lindsy Linksy
But with stories, you can step out of your own world and into the shoes of another for a moment and experience the emotions that go with that. The stories are powerful stories really stick with us.
Peterson Toscano
Lindsey wrote her book with a very clear mission to reach a specific audience. Every aspect of the book is geared to this audience, including the title,
Lindsy Linksy
The title came later, I was trying to appeal to someone who has never or would never picked up an environmental book, but also took their faith seriously. I settled on Keep It Good because God said it is good. And I believe that one of our roles as Christians is to keep it that way.
Who is her audience? Conservative Christians that I call the Eco-hesitant. I don’t call them hoaxers. I don’t call them climate deniers, I feel like labels with negative connotations have the opposite effect. I wanted to help tear down walls instead of reinforcing them. Specifically, eco-hesitant people that hold on to misconceptions and believe that God doesn’t care about what we do with his creation. Perhaps they picked up some of these misconceptions from TV or there are some not all but some preachers that preach these as well. You know, like God gave Adam and Eve dominion. So that means that we can just do whatever we want, or God gave us all things for our enjoyment. And so some take that to mean that means we can just take take, take and enjoy the hell out of it. Those are misconceptions.
Lindsy Linksy
As a lot of science, education, research on misconceptions, it’s actually harder to unlearn something that is a misconception than it is to learn something brand new. So it is a process. Students can’t learn something they’re not ready for. You have to know basic math before you can do algebra you have to be able to read before you can analyze poetry, I mean, plain and simple. The readers I’m trying to reach believe God doesn’t care about creation. If they really think God doesn’t care, and they’re serious Christians, then why should they care about their carbon footprint they wrote, they need to understand creation care and our role and creation first, before that conversation will be effective.
Peterson Toscano
Lindsey seeks to put readers at ease and to encourage them to trust her in what she has to say. She writes, quote, contrary to every other book I’ve seen on this topic, you will not see the words global warming or climate change anywhere in this book, other than this sentence.
Lindsy Linksy
So that comment in the introduction was an attempt to set a friendly tone and show them that I’m an ally, and to settle in their minds that you know, I’m not coming at them with some talking head agenda that they watch very closely for that the focus is on Scripture and the biblical basis to help them understand how that particular Our creation disregard type of thinking is flawed.
Lindsy Linksy
I feel like we’re always looking for some silver bullet argument that’s going to magically wake people up. But according to Ed research on how children unlearn the wrong things, which I think is very true for adults as well, maybe even more. So. It’s a process. Pedagogy is important, I guess,
Peterson Toscano
in Episode 30, what does the Bible say about climate change? I asked my guests, “If heaven is our real home, what is earth? A temporary shelter, a rental property, where we bide our time before we come into our internal inheritance?
Lindsy Linksy
It’s like saying, “Well, I’m gonna get rid of this body when I go to heaven. You know, I can just live like hell and smoke and everything else here on Earth.” Another thing I like to say, you know, when this comes up is is to go with them because you’re referencing the new Heaven and new earth is a verse about it in Revelation, and go with them on that and say, “Gosh, yeah, that new Heaven, new Earth will be perfect, you know that there will be illnesses? Oh, wait, so does that mean, we don’t need to care about the sick people here on Earth? Or oh, gosh, t here won’t be poverty. So wait, we’re thinking along those lines, does that mean we shouldn’t care about the people in poverty, you’re on Earth. And that’s the same goes for the homeless and those in prison.”
Of course, they can’t say that, because all of those things are specifically listed in Matthew 25, when Jesus gives very specific instructions, about caring for those in prison in those in the homeless, and so forth. He says that in Matthew 25, that’s what he’s going to do is separate the sheep from the goats. Gosh, think about the hospitals, the all the visible things that happened in the world, on the basis of Christians following that particular scripture, in of Saint fill in the blank hospital, and all the charities and all of the different things. And I’m like, How in the world did we miss this for so long?
Peterson Toscano
Here’s the parable of Jesus Lindsey is referencing, “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, and he will sit on the throne of his glory, all the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep and the goats. And he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats in his left. Then the King will say to those at His right hand come you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, For I was hungry, and you gave me food. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me. And the parable, the people recognized for these good works are genuinely perplexed. Wait, when did we do these things to help you? And he will answer them. Truly I tell you, just as you did it to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, did it for me.”
Peterson Toscano
Lindsy sees how this teaching of Jesus has inspired his people to start a multitude of ministries that care for the sick, the hungry and those in prison. She then shared with me and often overlooked Old Testament passage about the good shepherd and his sheep.
Lindsy Linksy
Gosh, I wish I could have all of your listeners write down Ezekiel 3417. It’s so powerful.
“And as for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign Lord says. I will judge between one sheep and another and between rams and goats. Listen to what he says in the rest of the metaphor. Is it not enough for you to feed on good pasture? Must you also trample the rest of your pasture with your feet? Is it not enough for you to drink clear water? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet? Must my flock feed on what you have trampled and drink what you have muddied with your feet?”
Yes, the immediate needs are incredibly important. And we built all these hospitals and that’s so great. What about the condition? We are leaving the pasture? You want to breathe a clean air of the suburbs? I certainly understand why you would want that. But but you want to drive your giant SUVs from the suburbs into the city for work. Who lives there who’s breathing all the smog from all those giant SUVs driving into the city every day? Okay, who lives next to the landfills you know, who are the people that that’s the only rent they can afford and lives next to the landfills because nobody else wants to live there. Half the world is completely dependent on on fish for their main source of protein and is thinking about ocean acidification. If we are serious about following Jesus and doing what the Good Shepherd told us to do, then we also have to be serious about caring for the pasture that sustains his flock.
Peterson Toscano
Next month, I will have a guest who will also share a strong message to Christians about the need to care for the planet and each other. Tony Campolo led the Evangelical Association for the promotion of education for over 40 years. He’s written over 50 books for believers, including a book about creation care he published in 1993. In it, he writes, If nature is to be saved, then men have to be delivered from the models of manliness that have thus far guided the socialization of so many of them. Men have to learn that maturity requires taking on some qualities, which they hitherto have deemed fit only for women. They must learn sensitivity and gentleness. They must learn empathy and the joy of yielding and love. They must learn how to feel and new ways that have hitherto been considered soft and sentimental. Only a new breed of men imbued with such qualities can be trusted with a creation, which gives every evidence of being fragile and easily hurt. I asked Lindsay about Tony Campos thoughts on masculinity in the planet.
Lindsy Linksy
One of the misconceptions is that God gave Adam and Eve Dominion in the in the Garden of Eden. Some take that to mean well, we can just do whatever we want, you know, we are dominant, you know, that thinking is flawed, perhaps. But like he like he was saying because of our view of masculinity and dominion. And one of the misconceptions God gave Adam and Eve Dominion in the, in the Garden of Eden, this was some take that to mean well, we can just do whatever we want, you know, we are dominant, you know, that thinking is flawed, perhaps, but like he like he was saying because of our view of masculinity and dominion. And, you know, I look at it more along the lines of You know, it’s not our creation, you know, gods, the gods, the owner and CEO of this, you know, creation and we’re the managers of the property. We can also think of Dominion, okay, kings and queens. What type of rulers are we think of Robin Hood? Are we being more like King Richard? You know, the what? That was a wonderful and, and loving or are we more like Prince John, there’s just take take taking from our subjects. Yeah, I haven’t thought about it in terms of, of masculinity, per se. But yeah, that Dominion piece is a big stumbling block for some.
Peterson Toscano
Lindsey Linsky’s book is an excellent resource for those people who do not yet hear the call to embrace creation care.
Lindsy Linksy
My favorite conversations are from people who are the eco-hesitant and had never picked up an environmental book in their lives. Although they haven’t said it publicly. They have come to me privately and said, Wow, you have really changed the way I look at creation and at what I’m supposed to do in creation, some people that you would never believe so maybe they’re not quite ready to say that publicly. But it’s also like the misconception thing. It’s a process and the seeds have been planted and I believe it’s, I believe the tide is about to turn on that front.
Peterson Toscano
Learn more about Lindsey Linsky and her book, Keep it Good: Understanding creation care through parables. Search for it at goodreads.com.
If you like what you hear and you want to support the work we do, visit Citizens Climate Education.org
