Episode 99: The Energy Permitting Reform Act and the Sound of Climate Change

In this episode, you will learn about the Energy Permitting Reform Act in the U.S. Congress, and how a music class led a college student to discover fresh insights about climate change. We also share how listening will enhance and improve your ability as a climate communicator. 

Barbara Wankollie’s Soundscape: Climate and Colonization Through Sound

Barbara Wankollie

We highlight the work of Barbara Wankollie, a political science student from Liberia studying at Bucknell University. As part of a class combining music theory and climate change, Barbara created a powerful soundscape reflecting on colonization and Africa’s place in the Anthropocene. She was inspired by Gabrielle Hecht’s essay The African Anthropocene. “The Anthropocene feels different depending on where you are – too often, the ‘we’ of the world is white and Western…If the Anthropocene is to have real value as a category of thought and a call to action, it must federate people and places, not just disciplines. It requires thinking from, and with, Africa. ‘They’ are ‘us,’ and there is no planetary ‘we’ without them.”

Barbara created original music through Bandlab and mixed in field recordings. Her piece begins with rain and drums, symbolizing how African communities lived harmoniously with the land. This harmony is disrupted by industrial sounds, representing the extractivism brought by colonization. Barbara’s composition vividly captures the ongoing tension between natural balance and exploitation.

One poignant moment in the work came from an accidental recording during a trip to Baltimore. Barbara and her friends, all international students, reflected on seeing a vibrant Black community for the first time after attending a predominantly white university. This unplanned audio became a fitting conclusion to her soundscape, illustrating the deep personal connections between climate change, culture, and identity.

Barbara’s composition offers a unique and emotional perspective on the intersection of climate and colonization, showing how art can reveal these challenges’ personal and global dimensions.

(Disclaimer: This program includes terminology that may be offensive to some listeners. Rather than remove this content, and to respect the artist’s intent in incorporating it, we want to acknowledge its harmful impact, learn from it, and spark conversation to create a more inclusive future together. For more background and historical perspective on the word used, visit this explainer.) 

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The Nerd Corner: The Energy Permitting Reform Act

Dana Nuccitelli

CCL Research Coordinator Dana Nuccitelli unpacks the bipartisan Energy Permitting Reform Act. While the bill aims to streamline permitting for clean energy infrastructure, it also includes provisions to boost fossil fuel extraction. But which will have a more significant impact on climate pollution—clean energy or fossil fuels?

Dana discusses research conducted by a “super team” of energy modeling experts from Princeton, Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI), Resources for the Future (RFF), and Third Way. Their models estimate that, despite conservative assumptions, the bill could reduce U.S. climate pollution by up to 25% by 2050. This makes the Energy Permitting Reform Act a potential game-changer in transitioning to a cleaner energy future.

Learn more about energy permitting at www.cclusa.org/permittingreform, and read Dana’s other analysis at The Nerd Corner.

Resilience Corner: The Power of Listening in Life and Climate Conversations

In this episode’s Resilience Corner, CCL’s Education and Resilience Coordinator Tamara Staton explores the profound impact of listening, both in climate work and for building personal resilience. Tamara highlights how deep listening—creating space for others to express themselves fully—fosters collaboration, reduces stress, and strengthens emotional resilience, which are essential for sustaining long-term climate action.

She explains that listening is not just about hearing words; it’s about truly understanding someone’s perspective. In climate communication, this practice can lead to more productive conversations and the discovery of creative solutions. By listening deeply, we can build trust, allow new ideas to flourish, and better support those working alongside us in the movement.

Tamara also connects the practice of listening to personal resilience, noting that when we slow down and listen—whether to ourselves, others, or the world around us—we can better manage stress and remain grounded in our climate work. This intentional act of listening helps us recharge emotionally, making us more effective and resilient in the long run.

Learn more at The Resilience Hub.

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• Email: radio @ citizensclimate.org
• Text/Voicemail: 619-512-9646 (+1 if calling from outside the USA.)

Production Team:

• Written and produced by Peterson Toscano, Dana Nuccitelli, and Tamara Staton.
• Technical Support: Ricky Bradley, and Brett Cease
• Editing and Social Media Assistance: Flannery Winchester
• Other assistance from Karina Ramirez, Steffanie Munguía, and Elise Silvestri.

Music is provided by epidemicsound.com

Read the Transcript

SPEAKERS

Tamara Staton, Peterson Toscano, Barbara Wankollie, Dana Nuccitelli

Peterson Toscano  00:00

Welcome to Citizens’ Climate Radio, your climate change podcast. We highlight people’s stories, celebrate your successes, and share strategies for effective climate communications. I’m your host, Peterson Toscano, and this is episode 99. 

Peterson Toscano  00:18

You may already notice that things sound different here, and you will hear even more changes. We received feedback from listeners who told us they want more frequent episodes and shorter ones. Ask, and you shall receive. Starting today, you will have a new episode of Citizens’ Climate Radio every two weeks. they will be of varying lengths, but almost always under 30 minutes. 

Peterson Toscano  00:50

In this episode, Dana Nuccitelli joins us for the nerd corner. He tells us about the Energy Permitting Reform Act. This Act includes provisions that promote clean energy along with oil and gas extraction. So, will it help reduce climate pollution? Dana breaks it down for us. Tamara Staton provides expert tips about listening. These techniques will help you stay focused, and also are effective in climate change conversations. And get ready for the release of our limited series Hot Mess: How Climate Consensus Turned into Political Chaos. 

Peterson Toscano  01:32

But first we hear from a student in Pennsylvania, USA. She took a music class that used music theory and sound to help students better understand climate change. Earlier this year, from a side room at a sustainability symposium at Bucknell University in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, I heard strange sounds and music. I ventured over to the room and met Tyler Yamin, a visiting assistant professor of music. Tyler designed the class Global Pop and Global Warming. And I was hearing musical compositions his students had created.

Peterson Toscano  02:15

Each student wrote an essay describing their soundscapes, origins, and inspirations; Tyler put me in contact with Barbara Wankollie, an international student from Liberia studying political science with a focus on foreign policy.

Barbara Wankollie  02:33

We had to read different scholarly articles and watch different videos and then create our own project. It was actually not what I expected. I thought it was just going to be, you know, just instrumentalizing music. But the climate part was, was the one that hit very close to home because me being from Liberia, there are so many, especially when we, when we started the class talking about the Anthropocene, there were so many things that I felt were missing.

Peterson Toscano  03:05

One of the articles captured Barbara’s attention, the African Anthropocene by Gabrielle Hecht.

03:12

Barbara Wankollie When it comes to Africa, it started from colonization, like we had extractivism, like our bodies were taken, our land, our resources, and it left us with nothing up to this point that some some countries in Africa still struggling due to, like, you know, the effects on, like, colonization. So when I read this article, I was like, I wish we had more articles about this. That article inspired music project,

Peterson Toscano  03:43

Barbara created a musical composition that included music she created through the BandLab website and sound she recorded in the field.

Barbara Wankollie  03:52

The first step was we had to make a recording about somewhere on campus. It could be anywhere that kind of show a natural part of Bucknell. I decided to record at the beginning of March. It was a rainy night, and I decided to go out and record this sound of the rain and water rushing through the boxes, basically at the beginning of the piece, I added the quiet night in drum sound, because how I imagined Africans, how they interacted with the land before colonization. They were still farming. They were still doing stuff to the land, but for me, it was kind of insane. They took from the land, but they also replenished the land. They knew when to farm and when not to. They knew when to stop. They knew when to leave a particular lane, to go to another land to farm because you know that landing is like recovering everything. 

Barbara Wankollie  04:58

And then the second. In part, is basically like an eruption. When colonization came in, new ideas were closed upon Africans in the land, in their culture, and in their body. The sounds are still there. One was kind of higher over the other. So if you listen to the piece, you can still kind of hear the drum sound, but it’s just like, at the back, there’s so many mining going on. People are like, extracting things. So it’s like, it’s crazy in that particular part of the piece,

Peterson Toscano  05:31

Barbara’s ending fell right into her lap. This is her favorite part of the composition, and it comes from an accidental recording. Barbara took a spring break field trip to Baltimore, Maryland, with another class. She used the opportunity to make more recordings, and although far from Liberia, after living on a predominantly white campus in central Pennsylvania, Barbara suddenly felt much more at home

Peterson Toscano  05:58

Barbara Wankollie agreed to let us air her recording on our show. To get the full effect, I recommend listening with earphones or headphones and now Africacene by Barbara Wankollie. 

Barbara Wankollie  05:58

While recording, my friends, they’re very funny. We have crazy conversations. Most of my friends are international students like me. So while recording, we started, you know, talking about Baltimore and how this is the first time we’ve seen lots of Black people in one setting. Because, yeah, because it was a great experience for us. It was a new experience for us. We felt welcome, even though we did not know anyone in, like that little town, we were intrigued by, like the graffitis, people listening to loud music, how they tried to, like, you know, preserve their culture. That particular, uh, recording was basically, as you know, you know, talking about how many black people we’ve seen and laughing about it. It’s a sad thing, because it’s not how it’s supposed to be, but the fact that, you know, we’re able to laugh in moments like this is kind of like a hope, you know. So when I listened to recording, I was like, I don’t want to change this. I feel like people need to hear about it, so it made me think about Africa. 

Peterson Toscano  10:50

Thank you, Barbara, that was awesome. Thanks for sharing your composition and the creation process also. Thank you to her professor, Tyler Yamin. 

Peterson Toscano  11:04

In a moment, Dana Nuccitelli will tell us about a study that reveals the possible impacts of the Energy Permitting Reform Act. Will provisions for fossil fuel extraction get support from Republicans? More importantly, will those provisions undermine the effectiveness of the Act’s ability to reduce gas emissions? But first, here is Tamara Staton with the Resilience Corner.

Tamara Staton  11:30

Hi, I’m Tamara Staton, CCLs, education and resilience coordinator, and this is Resilient Climateeering through Unexpected Climate Connections. This isn’t a series about weather science or data. It’s about finding ways to worry less and act more on climate through a lens of playful curiosity. Today’s topic is listening and climate. 

Tamara Staton  11:52

Maybe 10 years ago, my friend Amanda and I started leaving long messages on each other’s voicemail. She might talk about her three sons, Zach, Grayson, and Aaron braving the Arizona heat to play soccer, and I’d call back days or weeks later to share about our camping trip adventures to the scenes or Kaya’s first day of third grade. I never expected to fall in love with that habit, but it became a powerful asynchronous communication strategy over time. It taught me the true power of listening, creating spaces where we can fully listen and be heard. 

Tamara Staton  12:23

What do we gain by slowing down and really listening to each other? Research shows that listening deeply can reduce stress, enhance creativity, and build trust, all of which are critical for fostering collaboration in climate work. According to a study published in the Harvard Business Review, good listening reduces the speaker’s anxiety and increases their self-insight, leading to improved emotional resilience. Additionally, research in the communications reports journal indicates that active empathic listening fosters empathic concern, which enhances creativity and collaboration. Moreover, a study in the International Journal of Listening highlights how effective listening builds trust and strengthens relationships. These are all traits we need in the climate movement. We can better attend to what needs care by actively listening, whether noticing the tension in our bodies or resolving conflicts. Listening helps us tune into the underlying issues and find pathways forward. 

Tamara Staton  13:21

Returning to my own story. Amanda and I have since graduated from voicemails to the Marco Polo app. For those unfamiliar, Marco Polo is like a game of virtual tag. You can send video messages back and forth at your convenience. It’s named after the classic pool game where one person calls out Marco and the other one answers Polo. This technology has brought a new level of communication. Now I can show her the back fence that we just built, and she can give me a tour of her blooming tower garden. Yet the essence of what we share remains the same deep listening and connection, whether through words or images, listening even through a screen offers a space for reflection, insight and creativity. These are qualities that we need in order to tackle the challenges of climate change. 

Tamara Staton  14:08

The habit that Amanda and I developed of simply being heard continues to strengthen our relationship and inspire new ideas. It’s a small practice with big ripples. So what’s it like for you when you listen? What do you hear? Who is the person you talk to, who listens without interrupting or needing to steer the conversation? What might it take to invite that into your life, And who might you offer that gift of listening to this week? I

Tamara Staton  14:33

n our next episode, I’ll dive into another set of unexpected Climate Connections, but in the meantime, I encourage you to practice listening in a way that feels new to you. Ask open ended questions, wear your curiosity hat and see what happens when you create space for others. You might be surprised by the connections and insights that arise. 

Tamara Staton  14:56

I’m Tamara Staton with the resilience corner. Thank you for listening and for your commitment to progress. To learn more about tools, trainings and resources for staying strong through the climate challenge, check out our resilience hub at CCLusa.org/resilience, and until next time, remember this: find your passion, let it guide you, and you’ll do amazing things for our world.

Dana Nuccitelli  15:37

Hi, I’m Dana Nuccitelli, CCL research coordinator, and this is the Nerd Corner.

Dana Nuccitelli  15:48

I’m here to highlight some interesting new climate research for the nerds out there, and to make it understandable for the nerd curious. In this episode, we consider the question, how will the Energy Permitting Reform Act impact climate pollution. 

Dana Nuccitelli  16:02

CCL has been advocating for clean energy permitting reform for nearly two years. That’s because research has shown that slow permitting processes are preventing us from building clean energy infrastructure fast enough to meet our climate commitments. Recently, Senators Joe Manchin and John Barrasso introduced the bipartisan energy permitting Reform Act to help solve this problem. The bill includes provisions to streamline the permitting process for electrical transmission lines and other key clean energy infrastructure. But because Congress is divided, in order to get sufficient bipartisan support, the bill also includes provisions to boost oil and gas lease sales on federal lands and waters and to speed up the permitting of liquefied natural gas export terminals. That poses a key question, which will have a bigger effect on climate pollution, the clean energy provisions or the fossil fuel provisions? 

Dana Nuccitelli  16:58

Fortunately, four expert modeling groups teamed up to answer this question. Jesse Jenkins from Princeton Zero Lab, RMI, Resources for the Future, and Third Way. we’re very lucky to have this super team of energy modeling experts provide such a thorough estimate of the energy permitting reform acts impacts on climate pollution. Despite making very conservative assumptions, the experts estimated that the bill’s fossil fuel provisions would only increase our emissions by a few percent, while the electrical transmission and other clean energy provisions would potentially reduce climate pollution by quite a lot. 

Dana Nuccitelli  17:35

Overall, the Energy Permitting Reform Act could curb America’s total climate pollution between 2030 and 2050 by up to 25% and conservatively by around 10%. That’s a big deal. Negotiations are still ongoing to improve the bill before it potentially comes up for a vote in Congress during the lame-duck session after the election in November or December. But we now have a great expert resource available confirming that passing the Energy Permitting Reform Act would be a big win for the climate. 

Dana Nuccitelli  18:09

I’m Dana Nuccitelli with the Nerd Corner. Thank you for being curious and for your commitment to climate progress, to join the discussion about climate science, technology, economics and policy with CCLs research team, check out the Nerd Corner at CCL usa.org/nerd-corner. I hope to see you there.

Peterson Toscano  18:37

If you have a question for Dana, email us radio @ citizensclimate.org. I we will make sure he gets it. And read more of Dana’s expert analysis by visiting CCLusa.org/nerd corner. 

Peterson Toscano  18:56

Before we close, let me tell you about our upcoming limited series, Hot Mess: How Climate ConsensusTturned into Political Chaos. In this six-part series, we will explore how the united concern about global warming unraveled in the United States and stalled climate change solutions. We’re especially curious about the people and moments in history that have been often overlooked, stories that have been underreported. Will this be an exhaustive history of climate politics from the 1960s to the present? No, that would require at least 600 episodes and a staff of 50 researchers. Instead, my guests and I will reveal puzzle pieces that will surprise you. You will learn about Republican and Democrat climate heroes who deserve recognition, and we expose some of the forces behind the dreadful shift from the political consensus to address climate change to the tragedy of missed opportunities. Through it all, you will encounter people who saw through the deception and kept their focus on the dangers that threaten humanity and life on Earth. They also pursued solutions. This is a story of reprehensible behavior by many and the determination and resilience of a handful of people. The story is not over yet, and for you listening right now, your part has yet to be told. Hot Mess will appear right here in the same place where you listen to Citizens’ Climate Radio. It is coming very soon, so stay tuned.

Peterson Toscano  20:54

Thank you for joining me for episode 99 of Citizens’ Climate Radio. I’m your host, Peterson Toscano. I also write the show, along with Tamara Staton, Dana Nuccitelli, and Elise Silvestri, who you’re going to meet very soon. Other technical support from Ricky Bradley and Brett Cease. Social media assistance from Flannery Winchester. The music on today’s show comes from epidemicsound.com. 

Peterson Toscano  21:23

Follow us on Instagram, X LinkedIn, Facebook, and Tiktok, call or text our listener voicemail line, 619-512-9646, plus one, if calling from outside the USA. Email us radio @ citizensclimate.org .visit CCLUSA org/radio, and you will see our show notes, full transcript, and you will find links to our guests. Citizens’ Climate Radio is a project of Citizens’ Climate Education.